The old argument “darwin is wrong because he said we came from apes” raises it’s aging, disfigured and tired simian head, once again.
The fact that darwin never actually said that doesn’t really occur to many theists. Here is what happens when they find out that – darwin, did not say , actually, .. um.. that…
(unsuprisingly, nothing happens. The ignorance runs deep in this one..)
Talk to strangers!
You’re now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You both like islam, and muslim.
You: are you muslim?
Stranger: why do u ask ‘>
You: um cos i wonder why ppl are muslim
Stranger: is peace
You: well so are lots of religions
You: and so is no religion
Stranger: i can give u explaination
You: thank u
Oops, a call-desk operator from India, I guessed.
Stranger: on a call wait
You: erm, u said 2 wait
Stranger: well we can tqlk now
Stranger: why i prefer islam is
Here ‘Tis, only muslims are peaceful. Christians are not, or anyone else. apparently.
Stranger: cause i belive in it and its the only true religion
Stranger: u can sense that peace in ur heart
You: ofc. if you think it’s the only true religion, u already believe in it 😄
Stranger: that satisfaction that yea ur on the true path
Stranger: cause i have studied other religions
You: oh, which?
Stranger: and i find islam truth
You: which others did you study/
Stranger: major religions
Stranger: what people follow
You: well, those are simply two…
Stranger: well there are many
You: there have been someting like 30 000 religions
You: in the history of humanity. and that’s only a rough guess
You: so only 29 997 to go hey?
Curiously, it doenst occur that in fact, islam is not even an especially large fraction of the earths population. Far more people are not muslim, than are.
No actually, it’s not curious at all…sense doesnt apply here. Cos religion, you know?
Stranger: yea but do u find people following that religions in ur town/.
You: does that matter? truth is independent of who thinks it is truth
You: most people thought the world was flat – but that didnt make it actually flat
Stranger: well for a better understanding we need to study and know religions so that u appreciate whats truth
Stranger: and lead ur life
Stranger: in that way
You: dont you first need to figure out how you determine what is truth?
Stranger: according to scrptures
You: how do you know which scriptures are true?
You: there are many, many.
Stranger: u study them u compare the facts
You: good idea
You: and have you done that?
Stranger: see if u dont beilive its hard to accept anything in the world
You: sure, but that has nothing to do with religion
You: have you studied them and compared islam to facts
You: intersting, and what if your facts were shown to be .. well.. wrong?
Stranger: u dont come into existence with just an coincidence
You: that is not “fact”
You: that’s an assertion
Stranger: its not
You: fraid it is.
You: but what would you do if your facts were shown to be wrong?
Stranger: its not possible
You: lots of things you dont know are possible, are possible.
You: what would you do if your facts were shown to be wrong?
You: hun ^^^^ please answer this
Stranger: i would search and see that are u correct
You: me? I never said anything about me
You: I said what if they were shown to you, to be wrong
I’m open to information as long as it supports my assumption. Any facts, I simply ignore cos why they destroy my faith. duh.
Stranger: well i have so much confidence that the things i belive are true facts
You: so – what you’re saying here is – you’re closed minded.
You: to the point that even if you are SHOWN to be wrong, you’ll ignore it
Stranger: whaat i told u is i have studied and i am came to a conclusion
Stranger: i wont ignore it
You: then what would you do?
Stranger: i would accpet it
You: and if that fact has changed so much that it no longer supports the idea the quran is truth, what do you do?
Stranger: i would trust quran no matter what
You: so again, you are showing you are closed minded and won’t accept any facts that dont, actually support the quran
You: so it seems you’ve not actually done research at all.
Stranger: see what ur trying to do is change the opinion
You: since anything that supports the quran, you accept, byt anything you dont, you reject
You: which, in fact, is not very sensible now, is it?
You: it means your conclusion that islam is truth, is not based on information.. but the reverse.
Stranger: who ever u are u may know the truth sooner or later
Stranger: i have studied
You: perhaps, but the fact is, you dont know what it is.
Stranger: diff religions
Stranger: that made me more stronger in my faith
You: you simply “say so”. – which is not an intelligent, nor defensible way to be religious
You: so since you’ve admitted you dont really have much of a factual basis for your religion…
Stranger: may be am not knowlegable to answer u
You: im wondering – what do you get out of it?
Stranger: thaat doenst mean am wrong or ur right
You: it means you cant pretend you are right, since you dont actually know
Stranger: i do know
You: no, you just admitted you ignore facts that prove you wrong
Stranger: i didnt quran is based on facts
You: so you dont. and that’s why being closed minded is a bad thing
You: no, it’s not.
You: any facts anyone shows you that are wrong, you simply ignore
Stranger: yea somethigns are beyond human capability to understand
You: then dont bother to make a claim to understand them
Stranger: i dont ignore
You: you just admitted you do.
Stranger: i accept it and try to search it and finalize
You: no, you just said, you ignore it
You: you trust the quran, no matter what
Stranger: well ur just trying to manipulate things here
You: no.. matter.. .what
You: no, this is what you said hun, do you want to change your answeR?
Stranger: thats what hypcrates do
You: well, if you’re admitting to being a hypocrite.
Stranger: i said ur the one
Stranger: am not
You: I see, and if I ask you to show me my hypocrisy, could you actually do it? or would this be yet another question you ignore from me?
You: show me my hypocrisy
Stranger: u just prooved it in ur conversation
Stranger: if i ask u to show
Stranger: the hotness ur feel or the coldness u feel
Stranger: ur emotions u feel can us how?
You: id go get a thermometer
Stranger: u just feel it and embrace it and understand it
You: id go get some way to measure what it is that is a result of emotion
You: is that hard for you to understand?
You: we CAN measure that stuff you know
You: its not hard. actually
Stranger: how do u do that do u got any facts?
Stranger: about it?
You: sure, what question do you want me to address in particular?
Stranger: i asked u can u see ur emotions in real?
Stranger: u just feel them
You: yes of course
Stranger: u response to ur emotions
Stranger: thats called bieng happy
Stranger: or angry u dont see them
You: emotions are chemical, they have various expressors, and various receptors, they exist for a reason
You: we can measure them.
Stranger: did i tell u how to measure it>
You: nope, but that’s the answer to your question. it’s measurable.
You: these are facts.
Stranger: assumed facts
Stranger: theoritical facts
You: erm, the fact they are in a publication means they are peer reviewed
You: no, measured, observed and published
You: you dont know much about science do you 😄
Stranger: well many theories are just assumtion
You: except these are proven . not theory
Stranger: many scientists clamed things which were wrong
You: which are later corrected
Stranger: but they were considered facts
You: for example?
And here is the pearl: Darwin is wrong! – at least.. what I think he said is wrong!
(yup, what you think, is actually wrong….it has nothing to do with darwin at all.)
Stranger: can u prove darwins theory
Stranger: how man evovled from ape?
You: that is not darwins ‘ theory 😄
Stranger: its just a theory have people come to conclusuiobn about ut?
You: well, what you just said is not darwins’ theory at all
You: do you not learn so much about science in your country?
Stranger: well brother
You: here is a tip.
You: darwin, and anyone that came after him, did not ever, at any time, say “humans evolved from apes”
You: and the fact you think so shows just how much you DON’T understand
Stranger: well how do u know that
You: because I bothered to find out.
Stranger: is the world mad to tell that it was darwin
Stranger: who proposed this theory
You: sorry, again, darwin did not ever say that.
You: do you understand?
You: your argument has come down to this: “I dont know what darwins’ theory was, but whatever it is, it’s wrong”
And here is a science reviewed page to prove it!.. oh wait.. it doesnt….
You: which is never a sane argument.
Stranger: u just cant accpet
You: sorry, one more time- darwin did not say “humans evolved from apes”
Stranger: many things in world aare just theories which cant be proved
You: and that page doesnt either
You: did you actually read that page?
You: and yes, darwins theory is better factually demonstrated than the earth going around the sun 😄
You: no, clearly you didnt read that page.
You: so – read it please, then show me where it says humans evolved from apes
You: you can actually cut and paste the text which says so, if you like – you’ll be busy finding it though. because it’s not there.
You: isn’t it exciting to learn stuff?
You: I hope you’re reading – i imagine it’s going to take a long, long time though. you’re already taking.. maybe 15 minutes? maybe you’re taking another call on your helpdesk job?
Stranger: nope am not
You: pity, so you’re not actually learning now? too bad – and here was me thinking you bothered to educate yourself.
Stranger: i am looking fir it
You: 😄 good luck.
And here is a random blog from some guy I know nothing about and has never published anything to do with science ever in his entire life – to show that I’m factually right!
You: ah yes, the most often cited and quotemined of darwin of all.
You: you did know that what you gave me was a blog right? and not actually written by a scientist?
Stranger: as u read
Stranger: its a theory its not a fact thats why it is considered as
Stranger: darwins theory
You: um. just a moment,one more time – the site you have there, is a blog.
You: its not written by a) someone who knows or understands, b) not a scientist and c)I can show they mis represent fact in a bout 10 seconds.
You: so, just plucking a website at random does not help you – your problem is you dont actually know what evolution is. your solution – is NOT to find a blog written by someone who does not know.
You: your solution is to find a textbook written by a professor, and read it
You: and here is how they misrepresent.
Stranger: now has the professer yet known
Stranger: why didnt he had an aswer about that?
You: can you find this quote on that page you gave me?
You: “To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.”
You: can you find it?
Stranger: let me look for it
You: the blogger is using that to “prove” darwin disagreed with his own theory.. but he deliberately left out the VERY NEXT LINE:
You: ” Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certainly the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory”
Stranger: u get that
You: you’ve fallen victim to one of the most superficial and stupid actions by quote miners. 😄
Stranger: its all theory
You: what do you think a theory is?
And enter, the exit strategy.. which takes a long time to play out..
Stranger: i have exam tomo
Stranger: i would like to aruge all night
You: i hope it has nothing to do with evolution
You: because you’re going to fail
Stranger: though need to pass though
You: but I suspect it wont be
You: hooray!, a pointless exam
You: by the way – an argument is when you bring supporting points for your supposition
Stranger: lol engineering exams aint pointless
You: you said “no need to pass”
Stranger: next time i will come prepared ok/
You: therefore, it’s pointless
You: you’d be the first muslim ever, to be able to intelligently validate his point.
Stranger: am sorry but there are many
Stranger: who can do that
You: im sorry, there is not a single one
Stranger: and show u how stupid u are
You: which is why it’s still a religion
You: and not a fact.
You: here is my site, I’m going to put our conversation on it.
Stranger: just because i cant do that it doesnt mean no one can
You: true, but it means your arguments are nothing more than “I want it to be so”
You: which, cmpared with any 6 year old’s fantasy, is pretty tame 😄
Stranger: u will see that soon : )
Stranger: whats lame and whats the truth
You: i doubt it, and im pretty sure you dont know either
You: but heck, pray for me if you like.
You: do a chicken dance too.. they have exactly the same effect…
You: i.e. zero
Stranger: pray ?
You: sure, dont you pray to your god?
Stranger: why do u even consider that ?
You: well many muslims like to do that , they think it does something
You: it doesnt, of course
Stranger: i do but am talking about u
You: sure, pray for me too.
Stranger: it does
You: well, i have christians, jews, etc. etc. all praying for me
You: even their gods combined haven’t managed to get me to “see the light”,
Stranger: so this site is about
You: well, at least, see it in a religious way. The facts just keep on gettin gin the damn way!
Stranger: humiliatiing muslims
You: it’s my site, about showing how absurd, basic and nonsensical are the arguments from theists.
You: oh you’re from india – which makes sense since you’re on a helpdesk all the time. 😄
Stranger: ok what are u trying to prove?
You: as I said, I keep the conversations from most nonsensical, absurd, and completely uninformed theists I come across.
Stranger: keep trying
Stranger: idk why are u so afraid
Stranger: people will accpet the truth
You: idk why you think I’m afraid
You: sure, people will accept anything
Stranger: cause ur constantly trying to
You: especially if it makes them feel important. nothing sells better than an ego
Stranger: prove ur right
Stranger: u want people to think ur right
You: I am? i didnt think I was trying to do that.
You: well, I want people to see you’re absurd and wrong.
You: which of course, you are
You: provably so
You: take your argument about darwin, for example
You: you dont even know what it is…
You: and yet, you think it’s wrong.
Stranger: am not wrong am just not that good enough to answer everything
You: that is exactly the point.
Stranger: u shud come
You: you dont actually know even the basic stuff about even your faith
Stranger: across some intelligent person
Stranger: then u may wet ur pants
You: and even THEN you think it’s “truth”, even though you have absolutely no way at all to show it’s even partially defensible
Stranger: stay in hell
You: well, if I do, I’ll be happy. but as yet, no muslim has been able to intelligently show his case
You: hell exists in your fantasy hun.
You: and being inside your head, would, indeed, be hell
Stranger: mark this words
You: from a guy who claims as wrong, something he knows nothing about?
You: lawl ok.
You: here is the simple, provable fact.
You: hell exists only in your head.
Stranger: hell doenst exist say thaat again
Stranger: ur jusrt digiing ur own grave
You: wow, you know.. out of the two of us- you sure seem the most scared
You: you’re terrified of hell, arent you, little muslim?
Stranger: sure sure
You: hell doesnt worry you?
Stranger: i need to study now
Stranger: post many conversations proove urself right
You: i will, you can check that site later. I’ll even annotate your arguments, since they’e so common
Stranger: sure sure
Stranger: try harder mate
You: i dont think I need to. but it is fun
You: I mean, you’re coming to this conversation without a single intlligent defensible bit of anything at all.
You: you even screwed up your own arguments.
You: I didn’t have to do anything
Stranger: i need to study
Stranger: now please
You: yes, you keep saying.
Stranger: ur self right
You: again, it’s no me proving im right
You: it’s just showing how nonsensical and absurd is your position
You: if you’re leaving, you can leave, you know
You: i love to post conversations that have the other, dragging it on and on.
Stranger has disconnected.
Theists really, really are the bottom of the sanity barrel. Not to mention the intellectual honesty barrel, the “having a clue what I’m talking about” barrel, and pretty much any other barrel except the wine/beer and pork barrels (a little aussie joke there…)